Andrew Denton: Matt thanks for coming in. Let's start with your debilitating condition, a fabulous name, Diastrophic Dysplasia, what is it?

Matt Laffan: That's the one. I wouldn't say it's debilitating, it's a rare genetic disorder.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: Mum and Dad both had to carry the genes, being recessive genes, there was a one in a million chance that I'd be born with it so the odds were in my favour if you like. And what that meant was that I was never going to grow up to be a big, tall, strong fella, no matter how many Weetbix I might eat, and at the age of ten my spine started to develop a twist and turn called Scoliosis Kyphosis and that simply resulted in me needing an operation which brought about the paraplegia and from then, from the age of ten, I had my own set of wheels if you like.

Andrew Denton: Are there advantages to being in a wheelchair?

Matt Laffan: Oh I wouldn't think they're advantages, but except perhaps people are a little more receptive at times to your needs and listen to you. You always get in the front of the queue at Disneyland or nightclubs or something like that.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: That's a particularly good aspect to it. But of course just as in life, as everyone here would know, you might be at the front of the queue but it's what you do once you get inside the building or the environment in which you want to work or live and play that matters.

Andrew Denton: When you find yourself alone, if you're at home alone, there's not some help there, is that a a time of relief or do you actually sometimes feel vulnerable?

Matt Laffan: I never feel vulnerable. I have never felt vulnerable I don't think in my life that I can remember.

Andrew Denton: Really?

Matt Laffan: Yeah. It's an interesting aspect perhaps I don't reflect on, I was robbed only a couple of days before Christmas on the corner of Park and Castlereagh Streets in the city.

Andrew Denton: Someone?

Matt Laffan: Robbed me.

Andrew Denton: Mugged you basically.

Matt Laffan: Yeah well it was a swiftie. It was working for the DDP, you can sort of pick them a mile off, and I saw these people walking towards me. I thought "oh hello". I was actually on the telephone at the time so I've got the phone in my ear and I'm chatting away and I said "oh some likelies just went past then". Kept chatting and then one of the likelies came back and I said "oh something's on here". And it was just a kid and he just asked me where Hyde Park was. Well those of you who are from Sydney, or aren't from Sydney, Hyde Park's not very far from Castlereagh Street, in fact we could both see it. And I knew this kid knew where Hyde Park was.

Andrew Denton: Mmm.

Matt Laffan: And I said to my friend on the phone, "something's on", and I turned around and looked behind me and sure enough the other player was there, and I thought I'd sorted it out when they walked down the road, but it was then that I realised that the money I had was gone and had been taken from my bag on the chair.

Andrew Denton: So while he was talking to you the other one took the...?

Matt Laffan: Yeah it was pretty smart.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: Pretty smart.

Andrew Denton: That's a low act.

Matt Laffan: Oh look.

Andrew Denton: It's this.

Matt Laffan: And it comes back to that question you asked, it didn't really throw me that much.

Andrew Denton: But you say you've never felt vulnerable.

Matt Laffan: That's right.

Andrew Denton: That's quite a construct because I can't think of anyone I've ever met who can make that claim.

Matt Laffan: Yeah I guess that's right. I guess it depends on your definition of vulnerability. I've certainly felt isolated and scared and the major time that that occurred was in nineteen ninety one when I was particularly sick with pneumonia, and I was very frightened then, and thought that just perhaps I could die and I had a choice whether I was going to keep on breathing or battle on, or simply just go to sleep. And even then I don't know if the word vulnerable comes in, I still felt that there was some sort of control or contact if you like that would help me through it.

Andrew Denton: And what made you choose life?

Matt Laffan: Ah it's too good, it's too good. I enjoy it very much and I guess also the friends and family that I have, have invested a great deal of time in me, which gives me a sense of loyalty, which I wasn't going to let them down and also I feel that there's too much to contribute and too much marrow if you like from the bone of life that one has to get into.

Andrew Denton: Just going back to people's attitudes towards you. Do people talk differently to you because you're little?

Matt Laffan: You see isn't that interesting. No, I don't suppose they do to you either Andrew.

Andrew Denton: Now you just talked down to me then!!

Matt Laffan: Cause I'm a big guy and I guess that's part of the answer. I mean all these wonderful people here and yourself might see me as a a little guy but you know I see myself as about six foot two and almost bullet-proof and probably that comes back to the vulnerability question and answer that I gave you. I don't regard myself as being a little guy and after people are in my company for a time they don't seem to have that thought either.

Andrew Denton: You've said that if there's anything you've ever wanted to do you've done it. What are the physical challenges you're most proud of having met?

Matt Laffan: Wow. I guess one of the first was going overseas by myself without the folks. That first journey took place in nineteen ninety eight, that takes some logistics.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: Cause I have to have someone travel with me in order to assist of course for getting out of bed and all that sort of jazz, and also getting around. Now on that journey I went to Ireland, London and France and I remember it was a fantastic trip. I caught up with friends over there and had a wonderful journey and I just recall being on the plane coming home, sitting in the big seat and ordering a Chivas Regal whiskey and having a sip of that and thinking well done Laffo you've done okay.

Andrew Denton: Ha, ha. When you were a kid do you remember when you were first aware that your body wasn't working properly?

Matt Laffan: The most significant time for me was around the age of ten, like I was always aware that I couldn't keep up with the other kids and that sort of stuff, but on reflection it was around the age of ten or approaching that time when the legs no longer had the power that they used to because the spine was twisting and damaging the nerves. Now I remember Dad saying to me, and they were never strong legs. I used to wear leg callipers and I remember Dad saying to me, "look let's go for a walk and you hop on your three wheeler bike and peddle" and I hesitated and I wanted to resist doing it because I knew somehow that my legs just weren't going to do the job. So that was a real learning experience for me with regards to that, and you know it was before my tenth birthday so I was nine. That sort of awareness weighs heavily upon you because you mature almost in a moment if you like because you realise that things are happening around you and they're a bit out of your control so you've got to work out what to do.

Andrew Denton: We have some footage here of your Mum from the "Australian Story" a couple of years back.

"I thought we'll survive this together. We'll fight this together, and we'll survive it."

Andrew Denton: Now I bet they never said it to you but looking back how hard must it have been for your parents?

Matt Laffan: Very tough, very tough. My Mum and Dad are a remarkable pair. They realised from the very beginning that I had challenges, but the only way in which to meet those challenges is to allow that opportunity was there and the potential was to be exploited as best it could be. Mum's always had the eye on the future more than Dad and myself. She's always ten steps ahead. She's aware that I have to do particular things so when the decision came as to would I have a mainstream education or one in, for want of a better term, a 'special school', I'm pretty sure mum would've been the one who said no. Mainstream education that's the way we go. And then when it was time for me to leave high school and go to university she was the one who again was ten steps ahead ensuring that once I got to university there would be accommodation where I could live and the likes of that. So yeah it was tough for Mum and Dad. But as Dad said to me when I was about four weeks old and I certainly can't remember it; I've got a good memory but it's not that good, he sat me in a little bouncinette apparently, sort of like where you'd be sitting, and I was just a little one down in the bouncinette and he sat me down. It was just a man to man talk and he said, "Well Matt we've got it all before us and we've got to take charge and so we will". And that was that.

Andrew Denton: What about at school? Because I know in Year Eleven you'd been quite happily at one school and then you decided to switch to Coffs Harbour High. Now that's a big thing for any kid to do.

Matt Laffan: It is.

Andrew Denton: To change schools that late in your school life. We all know how rough the school ground can be and how tough it can be emotionally, how did you deal with the other kids and how did they deal with you?

Matt Laffan: It was one of those things where once again in meeting the other kids it only took a moment until it all worked out, that Matt, sure he's in a wheelchair a few ramps had to be built for him to be there, but he's just one of us.

Andrew Denton: Seriously. The reason I'm saying seriously is because we've all been through school, you know if you've even got a slight difference that is usually the object of ridicule.

Matt Laffan: Yeah but it was in Year Eleven and Twelve.

Andrew Denton: I was at a very immature school.

Matt Laffan: I'd like to think that my generation and the younger ones have a maturity which is growing, specially with regards to people with disabilities. For example, when I advertised that I required a flatmate to live in my flat, the first time I did that I thought well you know what are we going to get here, you know they'll be baulking at the door. Yeah right thanks for that I won't take the ticket, I'm out the door. Not one eyebrow was raised.

Andrew Denton: Really?

Matt Laffan: They looked at the room, they met me, met the other flatmate and said yeah like to stay. So.

Andrew Denton: Did they not have questions like how does this function, do I have to do things for you?

Matt Laffan: Yeah, no they didn't.

Andrew Denton: And nobody was confronted by that?

Matt Laffan: Certainly not to my face.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: Yeah, no they weren't. I think of the Australian society being somewhat sophisticated to a certain extent, and Sydney and Melbourne and Perth, the capital cities, Brisbane.

Andrew Denton: This is going all round Australia I'd name everyone of the cities. (Laughter)

Matt Laffan: Hobart. Well I've travelled to most of them.

Andrew Denton: Canberra.

Matt Laffan: Canberra.

Andrew Denton: That'll do.

Matt Laffan: He's not so sophisticated. Just joking, Canberra. It's the people in the big white house which...yeah.

Andrew Denton: Yeah.

Matt Laffan: But what I find is that you can tell the sophistication if you like, of a society by the way in which it looks after those who can't look after themselves. I think we drifted a little as a nation, but with regards to people with disabilities it seems pretty good. There's a lot more which can be done, but I think attitudes towards people with disabilities have improved a great deal. People are, it's a cliche, but are focusing on the ability and I think the Paralympics had a great deal to do with that.

Andrew Denton: Mmm.

Matt Laffan: But we've got to get beyond, as a nation as well, as just patting the backs of the athletes and what I endeavour to do, not consciously, but I think subconsciously is that if there's a young Matt or Matilda out there who has a disability or doesn't and sees that I can do a few things they think well I can do that if not better.

Andrew Denton: Do they have to be called those names or can it be broader than that?

Matt Laffan: I think we can broaden it.

Andrew Denton: Oh good, good. When you were nineteen as you said you went to uni, you went to.. did Arts Law at Sydney Uni, St John's College, what was that first night moving away from home like?

Matt Laffan: It was huge, like I need assistance to get into bed. I remember being on the Ansett plane flying into Sydney, I turned to Mum and I said, "Mum I'm going to have get to bed tonight and I'm going to have to rely on someone I've never met before to do it", and that sort of weighed heavily for a moment and Mum said, "Yeah well you are". Now how a lioness can brave that and allow her cub to go forward and experience that is something else. But anyway that first particular night I did what all good students do in O week at university, met the rest of the troops, went to one of the local haunts, one of the bars, drank too much and ensured they drank even more and then said "Well", on my way back to college, "well there's a trick I've got to teach you". And they took to the trick pretty well and some of those fellows continued playing that trick for ten years.

Andrew Denton: So hang on, what was the trick, I mean?

Matt Laffan: Well the trick was I've gotta get you to throw me into bed tonight.

Andrew Denton: Right.

Matt Laffan: And at that stage of course ah they're so pie-eyed with the drinks so anything's okay.

Andrew Denton: Ha, ha.

Matt Laffan: So it was simply a matter of lifting me out of the chair, placing me on the bed and shoes and socks off and throwing the blanket up and saying goodnight. That's a big thing I mean.

Andrew Denton: It is.

Matt Laffan: These guys were studying dentistry, engineering, arts, medicine, all sorts of subjects and this wasn't a gig that they were expecting.

Andrew Denton: No.

Matt Laffan: Ah this wasn't their calling in life. And they're young fellas from the range of eighteen to twenty and suddenly one of the crowd is asking them to assist them in a very personal manner. I mean it's personal space.

Andrew Denton: It is.

Matt Laffan: Specially with blokes and all that sort of stuff, and they were just terrific, they were just terrific. So they met the challenge.

Andrew Denton: You work for the Department of Public Prosecutions now, your working day's often spent in the courtroom.

Matt Laffan: Yeah.

Andrew Denton: What have you learnt of life in the courtroom, what do you see?

Matt Laffan: There's no black and there's no white it's all grey.

Andrew Denton: Is that just a legal answer?

Matt Laffan: Pretty much. I've learnt that life for other people is not simple. For example when I was robbed. There was no real anger in me because there was no violence involved and I realise that these young guys have got a life ahead of them which could be very short. I mean the money that they took from me could or was going to end up in their arm and they may not have survived that experience. So I'd like to think that I'm able to look behind the brief as it were.

Andrew Denton: When do you have doubts?

Matt Laffan: I guess the future is one where there's always a nagging doubt. I never, you know, life to me seems to be either going too fast or too slow and usually at the same time and I guess the doubts really come about when I look ten years ahead. Life for someone in my situation is an expensive business, wheelchairs are expensive, equipment like that is expensive, carers can be expensive, that is where I find some doubt at times. Just the income as a lawyer with DPP is not always enough because there's a lifestyle which is sometimes difficult to keep up with. Now it's true I like going out, I like dining, I like going to the theatre and those things but that's part of life and I should be allowed to do that, but also because I work and I'm proud of that fact, that means that the equipment which I require is not subsidised. So I mean this chair was twenty six thousand dollars worth, if it wasn't for the generous gathering together of friends who raised money unbeknownst to me until the time, you know that sets you back.

Andrew Denton: You're running for the position of Lord Mayor of Sydney?

Matt Laffan: Yeah.

Andrew Denton: What would possess you to go into the muddy cesspool of municipal politics?

Matt Laffan: That's a very good question. Where I live in this city, and I have for the last nine years, it's dead centre in the city of Sydney so for people who are watching this programme, are outside of Sydney, I just live in the heart of it. And like anyone I want to have an influence over what happens in my backyard. I'm very passionate about the place. I care about it as I do Australia. Well I can't do it all for Australia, it's just too big, but I'll try the little.

Andrew Denton: You quitter.

Matt Laffan: I'll try the little patch called Sydney.

Andrew Denton: Yeah. If you could have a fully functioning body, what would you most like to do with it?

Matt Laffan: Yeah I've been asked this a couple of times and I used to say 'give me twenty four hours' and now I got very indulgent and said 'give me a week'. And one of them would be to certainly grab good mates of mine from rugby, Nick Farr-Jones, Peter Fitzsimmons, now they're a little slower and older and gather some other pals together and even yourself Andrew, perhaps you could join the good force and we'd take you into the real game that's played in heaven, and I'd love to have a run around and get tackled and tackle. I also would love the opportunity to dance, something Latin like I think, and as I've also said it would be fabulous to gather Mum and throw her over my shoulder and just ah take her for a run around the block just to stir it up a little.

Andrew Denton: Matt you're full of life, thanks for being with us tonight. Matt Laffan.

Matt Laffan: Thank you.